Tuesday, November 29, 2005

Morgan ap Llewelyn (c1334-c1384) (4)


Morgan ap Llewelyn was Ifor Hael's elder brother. Of course he was much more than that, but he has inevitably been overshadowed by little brother Ifor of Gwern y Cleppa. Perhaps if Morgan had, in a quiet moment at Tredegar, leant back in his comfortable chair (the one with the fewest splinters) and contemplated granting employment to that talented young bard Dafydd ap Gwilym, of whom he had heard so much, then things could well have been different. Welsh literature may well have remembered the generosity and grace of Morgan Hael of Tredegar, leaving the name of Ifor to interest only geneaologists whose pulses race when encountering, among dusty archives, details of an obscure younger son from centuries past. It did not turn out that way.

It is not difficult to imagine Ifor Hael as a jolly, old gentleman, surrounded by bards, dispensing patronage and favour like a local monarch at court. This would seem to be an erroneous impression. Ifor did not even reach middle age. In 1361 when aged only about 25 or 26 he travelled ( along with his wife, Nest) to Bishton Castle, the home of Bishop John Pascal. They did not return home. Ifor and Nest contracted the plague and both died from it. The Bishop promptly did the same. If this be true, then the story of Dafydd ap Gwilym falling in love with Ifor's daughter is false. Indeed, there is doubt over whether Ifor had a daughter at all!

On his death Ifor left a young son, Thomas, who, according to some sources, was taken in by his uncle Morgan ap Llewelyn of Tredegar. Their names both appear as witnesses to a deed in 1375, and, as Thomas Wakeman points out, it is reasonable to assume that Thomas was brought up at Tredegar under the guardianship of his uncle. It must have been quite a crowded house at this time, as Morgan and his wife had at least nine children.

Morgan probably died around the year 1384, in his early 50's. He had consolidated the family dynasty, but his heir was rather more rash...

Born: c1334
Died: c1384
Married: Maud Verch Rhys
On Throne when at Tredegar: Edward III, Richard II,

Children:

Llewelyn ap Morgan (c1366)
Philip ap Morgan (c1368)
John ap Morgan (c1370)
Christie Verch Morgan (c1372)
Ann (c1374)
Margaret (c1376)
Unknown daughter (c1378) (how cold and heartless that sounds!)
Eleanor (c1380)
and Guardian to Thomas ap Ifor

According to a 1612 pedigree examined by John Weston of the data-wales website, Morgan ap Llewelyn was responsible for 'Morgan' becoming a fixed surname. Others have attributed the 'surname decision' to Sir John ap Morgan, who died in c1492.

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think I am related to these Morgans', do you have more infor on them. Thank you Annie Crowe Coffman e=mail ac1226@comcast.net

aLivingStone said...

i am a morgan in NC,USA. there is an extensive book of our family's geneology linked to Wales. but, evenutally..there is always a stoppin point. i believe i cannot go futher than 1th-17thcentury. The last i can trace is Sir William Morgan 1561-1653 married Lady Francis Sommerset

Charles said...

Although you have a fine line on Llewelyn Ap Morgan, my question is such. Did Llewelyn having married Jonet Verch Dafydd in 1387 have Ieuan on or about 1400?

Benita said...

I am related as well as a million others as well, but it is so interesting to me to trace back my Morgan roots. My tree gets confusing after Llewelyn ap Morgan...Theres an Ifor and a Bledri name???

scottsdale periodontist said...

Im interested in learning more about him. He seems to have an interesting life.

Morgan Grayson said...

Hello, Cousins!
As a result of a "conversation" on Ancestry.com, a few of us Morgans started a page on Facebook (Genealogy 101) so we could share and discuss matters Morgan and other genealogy issues. If interested, please go there and request membership. Be sure to say that you are a Morgan....
Cheers, Libby Edwards

Morgan Grayson said...

Hello, again. Just in case this might be useful, here is how I have traced my Morgan line (paternal) on Ancestry.com. I have only followed hints, not done original research as yet, but just in case it might help someone, here goes:
Corath mac Eochaid Ruler 'Protector' of the Irish Tribe Dessi
is your 35th great grandfather
Aed Brosc mac Corath Ruler 'Protector' of Dementia
son of Corath mac Eochaid Ruler 'Protector' of the Irish Tribe Dessi
Tryffin Farfog 'The Bearded' (King of Dyfed) Mac Aed Brosc (385 - 445)
son of Aed Brosc mac Corath Ruler 'Protector' of Dementia
Triffyn Farfog ( - 445)
son of Tryffin Farfog 'The Bearded' (King of Dyfed) Mac Aed Brosc
Llywri Ap Cynan (818 - )
son of Triffyn Farfog
Dei ap Llywri (840 - 900)
son of Llywri Ap Cynan
Lop Ap Dei (860 - 910)
son of Dei ap Llywri
Arthafad Ap Iop (855 - )
son of Lop Ap Dei
Cynan Ap Arthafad (870 - 900)
son of Arthafad Ap Iop
Elgan Wefl Hwch Ap Cyan (900 - 930)
son of Cynan Ap Arthafad
Rhydderch Ap Elgan (930 - )
son of Elgan Wefl Hwch Ap Cyan
Gwyn ap Rhydderch, Lord Dyfed (970 - 1030)
son of Rhydderch Ap Elgan
Gollwyn Ap Gwyn (1000 - 1069)
son of Gwyn ap Rhydderch, Lord Dyfed
Cydifor Fawr Ap Gollwyn (1055 - 1091)
son of Gollwyn Ap Gwyn
Bledri Latimer Ap Cydifor (1057 - 1117)
son of Cydifor Fawr Ap Gollwyn
King Llywelyn Ap Bledri (1220 - 1245)
son of Bledri Latimer Ap Cydifor
Ifor Ap Llewelyn (1245 - 1285)
son of King Llywelyn Ap Bledri
Llywelyn Ap Ifor, Lord of St Clere and Gwinfar (1282 - 1333)
son of Ifor Ap Llewelyn
Morgan Ap Llywelyn (1330 - 1384)
son of Llywelyn Ap Ifor, Lord of St Clere and Gwinfar
Llewelyn ApMorgan (1366 - 1387)
son of Morgan Ap Llywelyn
Leuan Llywellyn Morgan (1404 - 1448)
son of Llewelyn ApMorgan
Sir John I Knight of the Holy Sepulchre Morgan of Machen & Tredegar (1428 - 1492)
son of Leuan Llywellyn Morgan
Thomas Mathew Morgan of Machen & Tredegar (1482 - 1538)
son of Sir John I Knight of the Holy Sepulchre Morgan of Machen & Tredegar
Rowland Morgan of Machen & Tredegar (1508 - 1577)
son of Thomas Mathew Morgan of Machen & Tredegar
Sir Thomas Morgan, Baron Morgan, Sheriff of London, MP (1534 - 1604)
son of Rowland Morgan of Machen & Tredegar
Sir William Morgan Tredegar (1560 - 1652)
son of Sir Thomas Morgan, Baron Morgan, Sheriff of London, MP
John II "Baron of Tredegar" Morgan (1596 - 1651)
son of Sir William Morgan Tredegar
Charles MORGAN (1636 - 1720)
son of John II "Baron of Tredegar" Morgan
Morgan, Colonel MORGAN (1688 - 1766)
son of Charles MORGAN
Evan Bradbury MORGAN (1731 - 1791)
son of Morgan, Colonel MORGAN
Joseph MORGAN (1768 - 1850)
son of Evan Bradbury MORGAN
William Turner Morgan (1791 - 1868)
son of Joseph MORGAN
William Hank Morgan (1821 - 1888)
son of William Turner Morgan
Aretus Elmore "Archie" Morgan (1843 - 1923)
son of William Hank Morgan
Van Ernest Morgan (1872 - 1930)
son of Aretus Elmore "Archie" Morgan

pat said...

To aLivingStone, in our group Genealogy 101 we share our Morgan lines and your Sir William Morgan is my 10th GGF. I have taken his branch very far back, so if you are interested ask to join our group. We also share pictures, etc.

Jim said...

I am a distant relative. I am researching this part of my ancestors and noticed something, on EVERY place I go. Do you all see a problem here?:

Bledri Latimer Ap Cydifor (1057 - 1117)
son of Cydifor Fawr Ap Gollwyn
King Llywelyn Ap Bledri (1220 - 1245)
son of Bledri Latimer Ap Cydifor

There is a 103 year difference between when Latimer died and Llywellen was born...anyone have any ideas? I have found one place that has a few sons listed that I have seen nowhere else, that closes part of that gap, but I cannot close the rest. As for the sons I did find, there are 3. The one I already mentioned is wrong, and 2 more. I cannot figure which of the 2 sons are correct, but they both begin with "R" and are born the same year (?) 1115. So I am using "R" Ap Bledri to try and fill a gap. We might want to look into this. Like I said, It is on every place I can find, this 100 year plus difference. Here is where I found the sons I mention:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/t/e/Sheri-Rochelle-Stewart-California/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0295.html

Jim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jim said...

Children of Latimer Cydifor Bledri and Clydwen Ferch Gruffudd are:

Mawd Verch Bledri, b. 1105, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire, , Wales, d. date unknown.
+Rhys Ap Bledri, b. 1115, Cilsant Castle, Carmarthenshire, , Wales, d. 1194, Gwynfe, , Dyfed, Wales.
Rhiwallon Ap Bledri, b. 1115, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire, , Wales, d. date unknown.
Llywelyn Ap Bledri, b. 1220, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire, , Wales, d. 1245, , , , Wales.

Dana Comteau said...

Llewelyn ApMorgan (1366 - 1387)
son of Morgan Ap Llywelyn
Leuan Llywellyn Morgan (1404 - 1448)
son of Llewelyn ApMorgan

This is taken from Morgan genealogy posted in earlier comment. How do you reconcile Leuan being born 7 years after Llywellyn Ap Morgan's death?

Also, I've just found this line of relatives and have no idea what Ap means. Can someone fill me in?

Dana Comteau said...

Tryffin Farfog 'The Bearded' (King of Dyfed) Mac Aed Brosc (385 - 445)
son of Aed Brosc mac Corath Ruler 'Protector' of Dementia
Triffyn Farfog ( - 445)
son of Tryffin Farfog 'The Bearded' (King of Dyfed) Mac Aed Brosc
Llywri Ap Cynan (818 - )
son of Triffyn Farfog

Ok, I googled the meaning of Ap. Another question: Why is there such a big gap in the above lineage? Was something left out by mistake, or is that ancestor Triffyn Farfog of Llywri the closest you were able to come to the father of LLywri?

This is my line, too.

Jessica Higgins said...

Can you guys give me a link to these Facebook pages please. I would love to discuss and trade info.